Comments on: Ethics & Unity in the Atheist/Humanist Movement http://augustberkshire.com/2010/01/10/ethics-unity-atheisthumanist/ "Have Atheism, Will Travel" - Specializing in presentations of atheism to students and the general public. Wed, 25 May 2011 03:45:38 -0500 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Robert Seidman http://augustberkshire.com/2010/01/10/ethics-unity-atheisthumanist/comment-page-1/#comment-160 Robert Seidman Sun, 07 Feb 2010 01:59:14 +0000 http://augustberkshire.com/?p=606#comment-160 Thank you for your timely reply, it has taken me a while to sort out my thoughts on this. I guess the work "ethical" is kind of a loaded concept, prone to abuse. I was specifically reacting to statements on another atheist blog that would label certain political opinions as being unethical and wrong for an atheist to hold. I appreciate your clarification. My thoughts are that a holocaust denier, for instance, is unethical because of the severe disrespect for those both living and dead who experienced the holocaust. I know it is very troubling to people who lived during that time to suffer such false statements. I am reminded of many peoples' personal accounts, including that of a U.S. soldier who was one of the men who discovered the Buchenwald concentration camp at the end of the war, and how he was haunted by the experience and his recollections for his entire life (he passed away last year). I can't help but think that promoting such a belief as denial of the holocaust is little different from promoting a belief in young earth creation. Both involve willful ignorance and disrespect for those who witness the evidence and make it knowable to all of us. Similarly, I was raised Jewish and the story of Moses was taught to me as proof of the fortitude of my people, but archeology has proven beyond any reasonable doubt that the story of Moses was written many centuries after the supposed events occurred and that the pyramids were built by Egyptians and that Jews were not present, indeed it is doubtful they existed as a culture at the time the pyramids were built. I am grateful to the people who made these discoveries knowable to me, I would consider it unethical to teach my own children what I was taught, but I recognize that my parents, teachers and rabbi did not have the information I have. My question is can we say "willful ignorance" rather than "unethical" to separate out the persons not worthy of being within the unity of the atheist circle? Thank you for your timely reply, it has taken me a while to sort out my thoughts on this. I guess the work “ethical” is kind of a loaded concept, prone to abuse. I was specifically reacting to statements on another atheist blog that would label certain political opinions as being unethical and wrong for an atheist to hold. I appreciate your clarification.
My thoughts are that a holocaust denier, for instance, is unethical because of the severe disrespect for those both living and dead who experienced the holocaust. I know it is very troubling to people who lived during that time to suffer such false statements. I am reminded of many peoples’ personal accounts, including that of a U.S. soldier who was one of the men who discovered the Buchenwald concentration camp at the end of the war, and how he was haunted by the experience and his recollections for his entire life (he passed away last year).
I can’t help but think that promoting such a belief as denial of the holocaust is little different from promoting a belief in young earth creation. Both involve willful ignorance and disrespect for those who witness the evidence and make it knowable to all of us. Similarly, I was raised Jewish and the story of Moses was taught to me as proof of the fortitude of my people, but archeology has proven beyond any reasonable doubt that the story of Moses was written many centuries after the supposed events occurred and that the pyramids were built by Egyptians and that Jews were not present, indeed it is doubtful they existed as a culture at the time the pyramids were built. I am grateful to the people who made these discoveries knowable to me, I would consider it unethical to teach my own children what I was taught, but I recognize that my parents, teachers and rabbi did not have the information I have.
My question is can we say “willful ignorance” rather than “unethical” to separate out the persons not worthy of being within the unity of the atheist circle?

]]> By: abadmin http://augustberkshire.com/2010/01/10/ethics-unity-atheisthumanist/comment-page-1/#comment-142 abadmin Thu, 21 Jan 2010 23:53:52 +0000 http://augustberkshire.com/?p=606#comment-142 Thanks for the comment. There were specific atheist leaders and groups I had in mind when I wrote this. Those who know me well can probably figure out who I'm talking about. Maybe it's too much "inside baseball" for me to have published it. I did not have in mind political disagreements when I wrote this. Most political positions are not unethical. (However, a few years ago there was an atheist leader running for public office who was apparently a Holocaust denier. He was rightfully opposed and marginalized by the atheist establishment. He now claims to be a Christian.) Thanks for the comment. There were specific atheist leaders and groups I had in mind when I wrote this. Those who know me well can probably figure out who I’m talking about. Maybe it’s too much “inside baseball” for me to have published it.

I did not have in mind political disagreements when I wrote this. Most political positions are not unethical. (However, a few years ago there was an atheist leader running for public office who was apparently a Holocaust denier. He was rightfully opposed and marginalized by the atheist establishment. He now claims to be a Christian.)

]]> By: Robert Seidman http://augustberkshire.com/2010/01/10/ethics-unity-atheisthumanist/comment-page-1/#comment-141 Robert Seidman Thu, 21 Jan 2010 23:34:55 +0000 http://augustberkshire.com/?p=606#comment-141 I am at a loss to understand who you are defining as "unethical atheists". Are we excluding thieves , cheats, bigots and murderers? Or is "ethical" defining specific political opinions? I have atheist friends with whom I have political differences. but this does not prevent us from being united in sharing our thoughts and experiences with regard to atheism, reasoned thought, raising children, and other issues relevant to our shared beliefs. It would be very sad and unnecessary, in my opinion, to loose a friend because we had a political disagreement. I am at a loss to understand who you are defining as “unethical atheists”. Are we excluding thieves , cheats, bigots and murderers? Or is “ethical” defining specific political opinions?
I have atheist friends with whom I have political differences. but this does not prevent us from being united in sharing our thoughts and experiences with regard to atheism, reasoned thought, raising children, and other issues relevant to our shared beliefs. It would be very sad and unnecessary, in my opinion, to loose a friend because we had a political disagreement.

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